How long has Evlii been gone?

[svm]

I was just wondering how long coranto's official owner has been gone.

Under canadian law ( http://canada.gc.ca ) as evlii was canadian, If an owner of a copyrighted work disappears for so many years, then the work becomes public domain (oh for the disappearence of Bill Gates ).

After being released into public domain the CMS could then be given a MGL or similar Open Source linence.

SVM

[dadij]

I was just wondering how long coranto's official owner has been gone.

Too long. Elvii is obviously very talented and his mysterious disappearance was a great loss for the Coranto community. Coranto is an excellent product that in many ways still surpasses other CMS's. However, I feel sad to see how much it's progress has slowed down.

[svm]

I was just wondering how long coranto's official owner has been gone.

Too long. Elvii is obviously very talented and his mysterious disappearance was a great loss for the Coranto community.

Any idea on an exact date?

Coranto is an excellent product that in many ways still surpasses other CMS's. However, I feel sad to see how much it's progress has slowed down.

I beileve that if Coranto were declared MPL or GPL that people wouldn't be afriad to make a change in the core. Right now there are dozens of things that should be done but many are afraid that if evlii comes back he might demand it back and it would no longer be free. (I have gotten this impression from verious sources of which I will not elaborate.)

Also, with the permission of someone, I would like to be able to start asking around for logo design and web design from inside the mozilla group. As of yet I don't want to steep on the toes of the great designers in our midst.

SVM

[Parahead]

SVM, your credibility isn´t directly climbing the charts since you can´t even get the name of the author correct...

I was just wondering how long coranto's official owner has been gone.

http://coranto.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1227

Under canadian law ( http://canada.gc.ca ) as evlii was canadian, If an owner of a copyrighted work disappears for so many years, then the work becomes public domain

And that would be how many years? A specific URL describing this please...

I beileve that if Coranto were declared MPL or GPL that people wouldn't be afriad to make a change in the core. Right now there are dozens of things that should be done but many are afraid that if evlii comes back he might demand it back and it would no longer be free.

What exactly are you trying to achive with this post? Please specify those dozens of things you mention in this forum instead and I am sure they will be taken under consideration. And what do you mean by free? That Elvii would start charging for Coranto? Since one of the last things that was herd from Elvii was that Coranto would soon to be made open source and he was not going to charge for it so I do not understand your concerns at all... And even if a program is open source, there still should be a core development team that decides if a feature should make it into the program or not... Have you actually tried to post a request (that anyone else but you) have wanted? Just because you try to make Coranto MPL or GPL doesn´t mean that anyone would be more willing to code your personal requests for you...

(I have gotten this impression from verious sources of which I will not elaborate.)

Could those sources please raise their hands and elaborate? Otherwise I will make the assumption this is a lie from SVM...

Also, with the permission of someone, I would like to be able to start asking around for logo design and web design from inside the mozilla group. As of yet I don't want to steep on the toes of the great designers in our midst.

You don´t need a permission to start asking around for a logo design and web design? Just don´t think that because you suggest a design it will automatically be approaved...

Coranto is an excellent product that in many ways still surpasses other CMS's. However, I feel sad to see how much it's progress has slowed down.

I agree about this and this is what we should discuss. But like I said above, there is *nothing* that stops anyone from comming with suggestions on improvements, either to the core or preferably make the improvements as addons. I have done both of these myself and both Lawrence and cerberos76 has been very willing to listen and incorporate those features/changes. I agree that both msbzdragn, Lawrence and cerberos76 has been quite absent lately, but that is another issue than license. dadij, do you have specific requests on features that you feel Coranto is missing?

And folks, don´t get me wrong here, having a discussion about the license and how the future development of Coranto should proceed is a good thing. I just don´t like it when people comes with insinuations and critisism without actually providing proofs and solutions but instead say "trust me", specifically when it comes from SVM, since I don´t think he is very trustworthy... Personally, I am starting to get really tired of your attitude SVM!

[SrNupsen]

In my opinion Parahead is the best that's happened to Coranto for over a year now:

- He gives really quick and helpful answers.
- He looks into everything.
- He has allready made seven useful addons on demand from this community, and made good improvements to four other.

Keep it up, Parahead!!

SrNupsen

[svm]

SVM, your credibility isn´t directly climbing the charts since you can´t even get the name of the author correct...

Opps, Elvii, sorry...

I was just wondering how long coranto's official owner has been gone.

http://coranto.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1227

That helps, thanks.

Under canadian law ( http://canada.gc.ca ) as evlii was canadian, If an owner of a copyrighted work disappears for so many years, then the work becomes public domain

And that would be how many years? A specific URL describing this please...

I'll search it up this afternoon.

I beileve that if Coranto were declared MPL or GPL that people wouldn't be afriad to make a change in the core. Right now there are dozens of things that should be done but many are afraid that if evlii comes back he might demand it back and it would no longer be free.

What exactly are you trying to achive with this post? Please specify those dozens of things you mention in this forum instead and I am sure they will be taken under consideration. And what do you mean by free? That Elvii would start charging for Coranto? Since one of the last things that was herd from Elvii was that Coranto would soon to be made open source and he was not going to charge for it so I do not understand your concerns at all... And even if a program is open source, there still should be a core development team that decides if a feature should make it into the program or not... Have you actually tried to post a request (that anyone else but you) have wanted? Just because you try to make Coranto MPL or GPL doesn´t mean that anyone would be more willing to code your personal requests for you...

I have no personal requests. In fact, I don't even use coranto now. (becuase the webserver is a PHP one). I was not aware that elvii had intentions of decalaring Coranto Open Source.

(I have gotten this impression from verious sources of which I will not elaborate.)

Could those sources please raise their hands and elaborate? Otherwise I will make the assumption this is a lie from SVM...

I have gotten this impress after talking to various coranto users via IM. If you want, I can send you the names Parahead.

Also, with the permission of someone, I would like to be able to start asking around for logo design and web design from inside the mozilla group. As of yet I don't want to steep on the toes of the great designers in our midst.

You don´t need a permission to start asking around for a logo design and web design? Just don´t think that because you suggest a design it will automatically be approaved...

I have no sort of idea. There have been dozens of A+++ designs by thoes in the community that haven't been approved... Why should I hope for any better luck?

Coranto is an excellent product that in many ways still surpasses other CMS's. However, I feel sad to see how much it's progress has slowed down.

I agree about this and this is what we should discuss. But like I said above, there is *nothing* that stops anyone from comming with suggestions on improvements, either to the core or preferably make the improvements as addons. I have done both of these myself and both Lawrence and cerberos76 has been very willing to listen and incorporate those features/changes. I agree that both msbzdragn, Lawrence and cerberos76 has been quite absent lately, but that is another issue than license. dadij, do you have specific requests on features that you feel Coranto is missing?

And folks, don´t get me wrong here, having a discussion about the license and how the future development of Coranto should proceed is a good thing. I just don´t like it when people comes with insinuations and critisism without actually providing proofs and solutions but instead say "trust me", specifically when it comes from SVM, since I don´t think he is very trustworthy... Personally, I am starting to get really tired of your attitude SVM!

[/quote]
And my attitude is? Here are some suggestions:
-CSS and XHTML standard in generated pages
-Better Addon Support in more areas (eg. login form, etc)
-Built in admin theme support.
-Bugzilla or similar system for bug tracking
-CVS for code changes.
-Better admin naviagation (eg. DHTML menu)
-Nice DEFAULT admin theme.

I have a vision of the coranto of tomarrow, because kriko gets mad and tries to discredit me because of my involvement in WW4 should not affect how well I write text in a keyboard.

SVM
PS: I didn't have time to spell-check...

[kriko]

Parahead,
Way to go, I couldn't have put it better myself

Nupsen,
I truly agree with you.

svm,
Personally, I am tired of you. Zip.

[Parahead]

OK, so SVM has been banned. Sad it has to come to that I think, even if I won´t lose any sleep over it... Well, I still feel that this thread has some value and therefore I give my response to it...

In my opinion Parahead is the best that's happened to Coranto for over a year now:

Thank you for your support, I appricate it (even if I don´t exactly see how this flagwaving and cheering is related to the current issue?)

I have gotten this impress after talking to various coranto users via IM. If you want, I can send you the names Parahead.

No, I don´t want you to violate their trust in you... I would rather see that those persons could participate in an open discussion here instead.

I have no sort of idea. There have been dozens of A+++ designs by thoes in the community that haven't been approved... Why should I hope for any better luck?

I agree that drgn can be picky but that is another issue. You where stating that you needed permission just to suggest a logo or design, which I simply said is not needed!

And my attitude is?

Your attitude is that you speek before you know what you speek of and also come with malicious insinuations so that persons with little or no knowledge about the subject might belive you just because you say "trust me"... Before you have proven trustworthy you need to back up your statements with evidence.

Here are some suggestions:
-CSS and XHTML standard in generated pages

I don´t understand, what you put in your styles and templates has nothing to do with the core of Coranto?

-Better Addon Support in more areas (eg. login form, etc)

Regarding addon support at the login form, this can´t be answered in a one line response, but it has been discussed before, one example is this thread. Better addon support in general is hard to achive without placing a hook once every line, much better then to place a hook at a specific place when an official request for one is made...

-Bugzilla or similar system for bug tracking
-CVS for code changes.

Yes, this is good points which I personally think could be talked about further. Don´t know if Bugzilla and CVS is the best choices, but some sort of bugtracking and version handling applications would be good.

-Built in admin theme support.
-Better admin naviagation (eg. DHTML menu)
-Nice DEFAULT admin theme.

The colors of the admin interface and the placement of the options (as long as they are there) is of no value to me, so for me this is not a big issue. Ofcourse if there are more people that think that this is a concern it will be adressed sooner or later. I feel that the task undertaken by cerberos76 to improve the database handling is much more important.

I have a vision of the coranto of tomarrow, because kriko gets mad and tries to discredit me because of my involvement in WW4 should not affect how well I write text in a keyboard.

I agree that you two have been acting like children from time to time. But you have not been very willing to accept kriko as the original authour but instead claimed your rights and clunched to the fact that he had written a porly crafted licence and did not let him correct that misstake. A lesson is to be lernt from that...

PS: I didn't have time to spell-check...

It is OK, my english is worse than yours, but it isn´t my native language though...

[LoneOwl]

Here are some suggestions:
-CSS and XHTML standard in generated pages

Yes and no.... Standard conforming, yes, xhtml, no. It's better just to use proper html. This is a low priority.

-Better Addon Support in more areas (eg. login form, etc)

The problem here is a security risk. Although I did post an example to show how simple it is to create a security hole, but the fewer the better.

-Built in admin theme support.

No, because not everyone would want it or use it, and if they didn't it would just add bloat. It's unnecessary.

-Bugzilla or similar system for bug tracking
-CVS for code changes.

For something of Coranto's magnitude when it comes to updates, that's pushing it. With the demand on the server and etc, it's overkill.

-Better admin naviagation (eg. DHTML menu)

For the dhtml, fuck no! Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know it's censored, but still. It's not uncommon for people to not use javascript or any little pain in the ass script except when needed and then it's a pain. That's purely aesthetics and nothing else. Coranto's interface is not for the general public to see, nevertheless the admin section!

-Nice DEFAULT admin theme.

It's really not hard to change. If it's such a concern for you, use Chameleon. Odds are, the "nice" them you'd want, many others would consider horrid.

[cerberos76_]

Under canadian law ( http://canada.gc.ca ) as evlii was canadian, If an owner of a copyrighted work disappears for so many years, then the work becomes public domain

I'll search it up this afternoon.

I will be very interested if you can produce anything on this. In fact my understanding of copyright tells me that even after *death* the work of a person remains his copyright and you have no rights whatsoever or can change it (if fact for great music artists, elvis presley included, the relatives still get huge revenues)...
If Canada has different laws I will be really interested to learn.

And my attitude is? Here are some suggestions:
-CSS and XHTML standard in generated pages
-Better Addon Support in more areas (eg. login form, etc)
-Built in admin theme support.
-Bugzilla or similar system for bug tracking
-CVS for code changes.
-Better admin naviagation (eg. DHTML menu)
-Nice DEFAULT admin theme.

Two things:
a) I am not absent. i read most of the messages written around and am actually working on Coranto from time to time. Kust I am working on the essential core not on aestetics. There is a stumbling blocks with database dimensions that is the real biggest limit of coranto and I am trying to remove it while maintaining compatibility...

b) as for your suggestions, I must say honestly none of them is worth spending any time.
- the CSS/xtml generation is responsability of those who write the templates/styles. the default one is standard compliant (even if extramly simple).
- addon support is extremly good (let someone who wrote lots of addon tell you). If you need some extra hooks somewhere, please make a request and you will get a reply.
- the theme support is built in two different addons
- bug tracking is efficient as it is reported now via the forums. Bugzilla is useful when you have tens of programmers and hundreds of files. For a program so small as Coranto it would be a waste of time.
- CVS could be implemented. But how many people are working on Coranto? 2-3 at top. that does not sounf to me like a big team...
- The comments on the admin are your opinion. I like it as it is and will not want DHTML, as it needs to work with old browsers. and I very much like the default theme.

As far as the vision of Coranto for tomorrow, I can ensure you that I am the one worried about that (because I really have serious problems on one of my sites). And if your problems are the ones listed, you are pretty safe with Coranto as it is....
the real challenge is improve efficiency and work with smaller databases while maintaining compatibility with addons.

[bozoka45]

Just curious about the copyright issue. SVM is Canadian, so he might know better than us, but I found this on the website he provided us:

Authors of works enjoy a number of rights that allow them to receive compensation for the use of their material. These "economic rights" generally allow creators to authorize or prohibit the use of their works. In most cases, economic rights apply during the author's lifetime and for 50 years after the calendar year of the author's death.

http://canada.justice.gc.ca/en/cons/jeh/britt.html

[bozoka45]

I'm pretty sure that my post above is the case, but here is the Canadian Copyright Act if anyone is really that interested:

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/c-42/38898.html

[Parahead]

I didn´t read through all that material but if that is the case about 50 years from the authors death it is no big issue anymore... First, we don´t know if Elvii is dead or alive, second, it hasn´t passed 50 years anyway...

Also, this would only apply to the last version that *Elvii* produced, not the *current* version! Correct me if I am wrong here (you guys that has been here since the dawn of time) but hasn´t msbzdragn been the legal distributor of Coranto since 1.0 (1.02?)? So anyone that would actually try to branch off Coranto (and take the legal aspects of it) would have to do that from the Beta 4 (?) release anyway....

I don´t feel that this a burden (more than these discussions pop up once in a while), since we actually do work with Coranto as it was Open Source, we have a core development team which is willing to listen to suggestions from the community. If Elvii would return, drgn simply hand over the code to him and say "it is yours". And since the last word from Elvii was that he planned to make it Open Source I don´t think he would have changed his mind in that matter. Sad to say though, my personal belief is that some tragic thing happend to him an he really isn´t going to come back. Please note though, any *addon* that is developed is that authours property and can have another license than Coranto if he/she whishes too!

I gave an example of a beginners FAQ in this thread which I feel would be very good to write the answers to so everybody knows what the deal is. Currently this information is scattered in the forums and in the head of a few persons. New users don´t have the history and personally I started using Coranto about 3 months *after* Elvii had disapeared (and didn´t sign up for an account in these forums for over a year later), so I definitly do not have all the facts either...