Coranto 1.31.2 BETA

Archive of notes and cross input on Dev versions of Coranto (1.25.1 and Older)

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Postby bozoka45 » Sun Nov 20, 2005 7:56 pm

I think I would have to agree with the previous posts by Jim and Aero. I feel this project has become Parahead's alone, there are no other coders because they have all been run off. I have great respect for him for what's he doing, mostly by himself (to the core and addons), but this program cannot survive with Para alone. We must attract new people to the Coranto community. I myself started with Coranto as someone who didn't even know what Perl is. I sticked with it and eventually wrote a few addons and I still offer my time for support, but I'm one of the very few users in the past year or two to do this.

The above people have made valid, explained concerns and should not be banned for stating their opinion. Obviously they care about Coranto; otherwise they wouldn't have a concern. To ban someone from such a small community because they want to improve the program is not only trivial, but detrimental to us all.

I think some of the good points made above are that addons should be packaged with Coranto in some way. Have a fully-loaded version with commonly used addons (perhaps have a group of 3 people that votes on what addons should be included) and a lite version, like the version currently available for download. Most people that are going to be downloading Coranto will have a broadband connection, and a few extra addons really aren't going to be a headache.

When I was new to Coranto, one of the reasons I was scared was because I had to go and sort through the addons, see which ones did what, then download them, unzip them, upload them, and enable them. That's a pain in the butt. I looked for other scrips that were as powerful as Coranto, and when I couldn't find one I came back. I believe I'm in the minority for coming back.

Should Coranto go to PHP? I wish, but no, it shouldn't. That would be a completely new project.

I'm not advocating a total change in Coranto, but I definatly think things can be done to improve the presentation. kriko designed a new, nice site that looks professional. Let's take it and run with it.
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Postby msbzdragn » Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:39 pm

SomeGuyNamedJim: Your email address for the forums is bouncing emails with an unknown hostname error. I've temporarily disabled your account - could you please check on your host, or supply me with a working email address?

Thanks!
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Postby msbzdragn » Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:51 pm

AeroSoul wrote:Somebody has somehow managed to find me in my deep dark hidden lair to come out and comment on this thread. I don't know what else I can say that hasn't been said before. Coranto is dead and dragn killed it. The developers have either left (like lawrence and myself) or have been banned (lordphil, cerberos, markolson, zac, and others). While dragn has been busy telling everyone how Coranto is better than every other program and always will be in the present state, the other projects have decided to adapt to constantly changing conditions. And guess what happened? With programs like WordPress and Movable Type (who both support addons by the way), users have no reason to even attempt to use Coranto. Especially considering it's history, and, more importantly, it's future.


AeroSoul - I'd appreciate your not posting bald-faced lies on this forum:

Lawrence left due to time contraints on HIS part - he simply wasn't getting time to do anything with the script. He was given pretty much free rein to do whatever he wanted. I could hardly have done more to promote that.

Mark Olson and Zac were never "developers" - they made a few small addons, but never contributed anything to the core.

LordPhil was banned becase a) he wanted to port Coranto to PHP, which is not in keeping with what Elvii wanted, and b) he wanted to charge for it. You can see the validity of my decision to ban him from the numerous backstabbing posts he made, and the fact that he NEVER released his own script that would have been Coranto, because despite numerous lies and promises to the contrary, his script was never made, nor was it ever anywhere NEAR to being a releasable project. (Phil has an incredible ability to throw away his code and start from scratch every time he gets near to completing a project, usually for the most trivial of reasons - I would guess that's what happened in that case).

Cerberos was banned for contributing code to the core, and then insisting that nobody was allowed to distribute his code on this server - but happily distributing derivatives of their code on his own server. He attempted to hijack the community for his own financial gain, and set our community back months in the process. Incidentally, he was also the only user who I repeatedly received complaints about, from numerous users on this site.

Quite frankly, I am tired of your misleading posts and half-truths. If you like what we're doing here, great. If you want to constructively criticise anything, do it TO MY FACE - either on messenger or by PM. If you're just here to whine like a spoiled child and do nothing to fix the problem - well, frankly you can take your opinions and shove them where the sun doesn't shine. I have done more than anybody else to ensure Coranto remained available, and (despite the fact I don't have programming skills) to try to encourage others to develop it. Where's your Coranto website, and where have you volunteered to take the legal responsibility for others who have tried to continue Coranto as a script? Because if you don't have one, frankly you've done far less than I, and you should perhaps be putting your energy into doing so, if you think this effort is to terribly flawed. :roll:
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Postby msbzdragn » Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:54 pm

bozoka45 wrote:The above people have made valid, explained concerns and should not be banned for stating their opinion. Obviously they care about Coranto; otherwise they wouldn't have a concern. To ban someone from such a small community because they want to improve the program is not only trivial, but detrimental to us all.


Bozoka: You will note that nobody who has participated in this thread, including an individual who personally attacked me and posted numerous lies and half-truths, has been banned. The only individuals who have been banned for any significant period either:

* Attempted to financially profit from Coranto's core
* Stole lists of usernames and email addresses of Coranto users for their own personal benefit
* Attempted to hijack the Coranto community for their own goals

I don't take banning people lightly.
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Postby SrNupsen » Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:10 pm

How about actually comparing the number of requests made to the number of improvements incorporated into the latest releases?

The cerberos issue set us months back. We were practically ready with a new beta version, and then had to step like 10 versions back and rewrite everything from scratch. Fortunately Parahead is around, because recently there aren't many skilled coders around here.

So we have a small, highly customisable free script that a lot of people use. Good. It won't get any better than that until some visionary person with spare time and organization skills comes around. In fact, you guys may arrange all the "Coranto is dead"-gatherings you want to, but people will still keep using because it is easy (yes, it actually is), it's free, support is good (a lot of people have given kudos for this lately) and they are able to use only the parts they need.

What did I learn from this thread? We need to fix the CSQL addon. Anybody up for the challenge?

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Postby jayo » Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:56 am

SrNupsen wrote:What did I learn from this thread? We need to fix the CSQL addon. Anybody up for the challenge?

SrNupsen


I agree. Coranto is a very powerful script by itself and is very flexible and customizeable. Many smaller sites can use this script with ease and use it for years. But for a bigger site with hundreds of stories every week, the TXT file database is not a solution. It may be for temporary use, but once it a site becomes so large, a TXT database will not suffice. And the webmaster will be forced to move on to a script with a database solution.

This is bascially my only gripe with Coranto. If MySQL was able to be used instead of a TXT file, it was be a script that almost no other script can compete with.

I wish I could code cuz I would definitely help with the community. But unfortunately I can only watch from a distance and hope mods are made..
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Postby Gilbert » Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:04 am

I concur.

I am using coranto since the first version [post NewsPro] and I do not intervene much in fact only to ask for help and support which are always immediate. My previous message therefore had to do only with the script in itself and not with the internal team structure that I do not know.

This said airing certain issues in public could be counterproductive – including the issue of licensing etc. [refer to the entry of Wikepedia] that may not induce " confidence " to new adopters.

My main concern is as it stands one of my site has reached it seems its end of " shelf life " – i.e. by this coming summer I have to decide the route to take as far as " content management " is concerned and frankly it is a pain as its a based on daily content and 47mb

Thanks to all concerned.

Regards
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Postby SrNupsen » Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:45 pm

Parahead, is there any chance you could move the CSQL issue to somewhere near top priority on your list?

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Postby msbzdragn » Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:48 pm

SrNupsen wrote:Parahead, is there any chance you could move the CSQL issue to somewhere near top priority on your list?

SrNupsen


I concur...
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Postby Parahead » Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:43 pm

msbzdragn wrote:
SrNupsen wrote:Parahead, is there any chance you could move the CSQL issue to somewhere near top priority on your list?
I concur...
I don't know... My idea of getting MySQL support has been stated elsewhere in the forums which involves a different and more layered approach than CSQL can offer. If SomeGuyNamedJim really do want to make an effort and help around here couldn't that be a very targeted and well defined problem to solve and very much up his alley? Or will that end up the same way as his involvement in the translation script?
Yes, I am still around...
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Postby SrNupsen » Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:28 pm

Parahead wrote:My idea of getting MySQL support has been stated elsewhere in the forums which involves a different and more layered approach than CSQL can offer


I am aware of that, but is there a way to make a "quick" fix for CSQL for versions <=1.24 , and then proceed with the somewhat more complex task of implementing the new data handling routines we've been talking about?

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Postby bozoka45 » Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:05 am

SrNupsen wrote:I am aware of that, but is there a way to make a "quick" fix for CSQL for versions <=1.24 , and then proceed with the somewhat more complex task of implementing the new data handling routines we've been talking about?

SrNupsen


I believe I know what's wrong, I just haven't had time to go about fixing it.
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Postby SrNupsen » Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:06 pm

I think this would be a most welcome fix...

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Postby msbzdragn » Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:19 pm

I agree. Whether or not it is the best way to do things in the future, CSQL doesn't have an alternative right now, and is relied on by a lot of people - so it should be fixed to work with the current version of Coranto.
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Postby kriko » Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:05 pm

Hey guys, long time, no see! ;)

I have seen some interesting points here and some of which are valid in my point of view. Let's keep things calm and constructive, there is no point in throwing mud at each other. ;)

The points someone (jim, whatever) pointed out here are true (at least according to my opinion). Let's face it, how many websites run Coranto and how many run a well known system such as Mambo, Nuke or other CMS software? Well, Coranto only fills a bare fraction of it in my opinion. We all can think reasons for this.

Different software exists for different purposes, for example, when we have a young journalist trying to advertise his or her thoughts in the internet then he or she just downloads and uploads a simple blog engine. For him it doesn't matter what is it running on, whether it is PHP, Perl, MySQL or flat file textdb. He just needs a simple solution working "out of the box".

Then we have the corporate user who has their software custom coded and that software is most likely using an advanced database engine: PostreSQL, Microsoft SQL, Oracle or something like that. They have much money and heck, programmers do need to get paid from time to time! Even they need to buy beer and buy flowers for their women. :D

The gap that Coranto fills is quite small. In my opinion a Coranto user is usually a person who once found Newspro or Coranto and got used to the platform and the general philosophy of Coranto-style content management. Then there is the medium level webmaster who doesn't know much programming but requires a flexible CMS.

For me personally, I am stuck with nothing. Nowadays I custom code anything that I require or try to find a script suitable for the job. All PHP/MySQL CMS'es are too simple and not very flexible. I need something that I can modify (something I love in Coranto is the ability to manipulate with fields and generate actions based on these fields - for example, publish output). But I have outgrown Coranto, it doesn't support functions that I would personally require - for example hierarhical, multi-level philosophy for data handling.


So to conclude. Coranto is not pointless, there are still people using it! As long as there are users the project isn't dead. :) There are alternative solutions out there but there are people that could potentially benefit from Coranto - they probably just don't know how or why.

PS: language doesn't matter, either it is PHP or Perl, if you really wish to run it on your server you'll find a way. Besides, usually both are supported, at least on commercial hosting packages.

PS (2): We can never have a perfect system. Whenever we try to make something ideal - something that could be perfectly adaptable to different situations then it would get too bloated. If we try to make it strict then it would be too limited. A middle way has to be found, but finding that middle way is hard.

In an ideal world, we would have a perfect computer <-> human interface where our thoughts could be realised and everythign would work excatly as we expected. But then again, the human mind itself is way too bloated.

Anyone care to make an addon like that for Coranto? AeroSoul perhaps. ;)

PS (3): I am just expressing my own opinion and I am not enforcing it on others. Feel free to take it any way you want.
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