Coranto 1.31.2 BETA

Archive of notes and cross input on Dev versions of Coranto (1.25.1 and Older)

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Postby Parahead » Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:31 am

bozoka45 wrote:I'll definately try to pinpoint the chain of events, but I do have a few answers for you.
Thanks for those... Another (important) question, do you have file lock enabled or disabled?
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Postby bozoka45 » Sun Oct 09, 2005 6:46 pm

Parahead wrote:Thanks for those... Another (important) question, do you have file lock enabled or disabled?


Flock is enabled.
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Postby bozoka45 » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:17 pm

Happened again when I wasn't around and using it, so no way to trace any problems. :( Should I try to disable flock?
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Postby Parahead » Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:30 pm

bozoka45 wrote:Happened again when I wasn't around and using it, so no way to trace any problems. :( Should I try to disable flock?
Nah, I would say keep flock enabled. What you could do is place some debugmessages in (the second half of) the sub SaveCConfig in crlib.pl. What I think happen is that it is a problem during save, but the effect of the problem is not showing until the next time nsettings.cgi is loaded. I have been rather occupied lately but this issue is high up on my TODO-list...
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Postby bozoka45 » Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:28 am

It's happened again. Just let me know what you want to add to the core to give you some error messages.
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Postby Parahead » Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:29 pm

bozoka45 wrote:It's happened again. Just let me know what you want to add to the core to give you some error messages.
Like before, it would be nice to know what files you have in the same folder as the nsettings.cgi file *exactly* when this has happened. Just "it has happened again" is really no information I can work with to track this down... However, I am currently addressing this issue and am adding logging functionality through a separate module. I will send you the details of how to do this later on...
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Postby bozoka45 » Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:06 am

Sorry, there's really no new information I can tell you. I've been looking, but no luck.
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Postby Parahead » Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:35 pm

bozoka45 wrote:Sorry, there's really no new information I can tell you. I've been looking, but no luck.
No problem. I hope the code I sent you will reveal something. I will change the file locking when dealing with nsettings.cgi as well, there is a race condition between checking for a file existance and creating the file which can cause problems.
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Postby bozoka45 » Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:17 am

Well, I downgraded to Coranto 1.24 and now it appears that it's doing it, still. That means its the server. I'll try and get to the bottom of this.
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Postby Parahead » Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:29 pm

bozoka45 wrote:Well, I downgraded to Coranto 1.24 and now it appears that it's doing it, still. That means its the server. I'll try and get to the bottom of this.
I have updated the lockfile and error handling during the serialization of nsettings.cgi, which includes a bunch of debugmessages printed to the lockfile. I will hopefully get some time in the near future to put the final touch on this so that I can give you new subs like before to test out.
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Postby SomeGuyNamedJim » Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:05 am

Coranto is dead. We've been left in the dust by all the PHP scripts, with their native MySQL usage and decent looking interfaces. In order to satisfy the minority, Coranto has been left in the dark ages.

I dare you to make a convincing argument that there is still a significant number of hosts who don't offer PHP... or who don't offer MySQL... or that there are still people using 16 color monitors with 640x480 resolutions and browsers that don't support CSS and JavaScript...

Sorry, just a little rant. Just yet another rant. Nothing is going to be said, nothing is going to be done, and I'll be lucky if I don't get banned.
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Postby Broomsy » Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:16 am

SomeGuyNamedJim wrote:Coranto is dead. We've been left in the dust by all the PHP scripts, with their native MySQL usage and decent looking interfaces. In order to satisfy the minority, Coranto has been left in the dark ages.

I dare you to make a convincing argument that there is still a significant number of hosts who don't offer PHP... or who don't offer MySQL... or that there are still people using 16 color monitors with 640x480 resolutions and browsers that don't support CSS and JavaScript...

Sorry, just a little rant. Just yet another rant. Nothing is going to be said, nothing is going to be done, and I'll be lucky if I don't get banned.

Name a PHP script that is more/as powerful as Coranto with a list of addons as big as Coranto. And dont say Mambo. All these PHP scripts are portals. They dont offer the customisation that Coranto does.

And is MySql actually an advantage? Flat file works well for Coranto. And is PHP more powerful than perl?

I am not sure if Coranto is xhtml or css compliant but does it need to be? Or does the interface need to be flashy? The end user never sees it. The admin can make everything posted compliant.

My rant over. Think of facts before you put down a FREE script.
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Postby Gilbert » Sun Nov 20, 2005 2:21 pm

The fact that new releases [and news] are slow to come is worrying – I know people are working for free and I am unable to recognise a string of code but the fact is that other scripts are catching up, evolving and growing.

The admin interface is also critical, as more than often it is the " saleable " part to eventual adopters.

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Postby SomeGuyNamedJim » Sun Nov 20, 2005 2:54 pm

Addons don't matter. When PHP scripts essentially come with the equivalent of iSay, Maginot, Facelift, Categories, SendToFriend, etc etc etc, nobody cares about addons. There are plenty of modifications/hacks available for PHP scripts though -- open the file and edit it. But, what's more important is that the same addon functionality is easily possible in PHP. Most PHP scripts are, in fact, moving on to addon engines. Need an example? Here's an excellent one: http://wiki.wordpress.org/Plugin

The difference is that they call them plugins, but the idea is the same -- you download the file, drop it in to the directory, and the file "hooks" in to the main program. I imagine, however, that most WordPress users never use any of those plugins because the program already comes with what are essentially the most commonly used addons.

Why MySQL? Read this thread. Look at how many times the word "flock" is mentioned. Then search the forums. Look at how many times the work "flock" is mentioned. The flock problem is a serious one and it has been around for a long time. People get tired of seeing the now famous "white login page of death". People get tired of having to lose data by restoring dated backups of nsettings and newsdata files. It's very difficult to avoid. MySQL doesn't have this problem. MySQL also keep most of its data in RAM while it's running, not in flat-files. Obviously accessing RAM is a lot faster than accessing flat-files. MySQL also has little in terms of database size restrictions. I've seen MySQL databases with over 300MB of data. Coranto starts to choke at around 10MB.

Perl more powerful then PHP? Ok, I agree that it is -- you can combine Perl with Tk and create cross-platform, compiled, stand-alone, GUI desktop applications, etc... But, Coranto uses none of the advanced features of Perl that can't be done in PHP.

PHP is where the world is moving to. It's the new kid of the block. Ask anyone who's kept up with news recently (read: digg, slashdot), and it's obvious that most users are scared of Perl. They know it's more powerful, but they are afraid of things like absolute paths, shebang line, CHMODs (properly coded PHP applications can avoid all of these things) -- these are the kind of things that are unavoidable and make users afraid of even attempting to use Perl scripts. And let's face it, the majority of the support questions on these forums have to do with exactly those things.

The design of the interface? Yes, it's superficial. But to new users who don't know what Coranto can do (and really who just want to use Coranto to power their simple blogs), the interface puts a negative, ugly spin on Coranto -- the interface is one of the first things they see. Facelift has done a great job of making Coranto pleasing to the eye. It makes it look modern. But Facelift doesn't come with Coranto by default, because dragn has said a flat-out "NO", time and time again.

If you look at the forum and all of the posts that ask for instructions for things that are done done by existing addons, I appears to me that most new users don't even know that Coranto has addons. Now imagine how many people download Coranto, and when they find out it's missing a feature they are looking for, they just give up (not post on forums), and move on to some other script -- which already comes with the addons that most people use, which isn't a pain to look at, which isn't difficult to upload, configure, and install, which isn't plagued by essentially unsolvable bugs and management problems, which uses a language most users seem to understand easier (which doesn't cause the dreaded and completely useless "500 internal server error"), etc...
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Postby AeroSoul » Sun Nov 20, 2005 3:16 pm

Somebody has somehow managed to find me in my deep dark hidden lair to come out and comment on this thread. I don't know what else I can say that hasn't been said before. Coranto is dead and dragn killed it. The developers have either left (like lawrence and myself) or have been banned (lordphil, cerberos, markolson, zac, and others). While dragn has been busy telling everyone how Coranto is better than every other program and always will be in the present state, the other projects have decided to adapt to constantly changing conditions. And guess what happened? With programs like WordPress and Movable Type (who both support addons by the way), users have no reason to even attempt to use Coranto. Especially considering it's history, and, more importantly, it's future.
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